A Salvation Debate
By
Gary DeVaney
Religious debates are no more than rearranging furniture while the house is on fire.
A Fundamentalist Clergy: Ephesians 1:4-5 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the World,.. Having predestinated us into the adoption of children by Jesus Christ…
We are told that it was all decided long ago, who gets saved. If God has already decided who is getting saved, then salvation is pre-destined.
For you to get into Heaven, God had to have written your name into His “Book of Life” long before the World was formed. That is certainly long before you and I were born on Planet Earth. If your name is notfound in God’s ancient Book of Life, you cannot get into Heaven. Ergo, you are destined for Hell. If your name is in God’s Book of Life, no Satan - nor any man - can pull you out of God’s hand. You will get to Heaven.
Your Book Of Life?
Question: Mr. Clergy, are you sure that you are in God’s Book of Life?
Clergy: Absolutely! I am of God’s elect! I am saved! Praise God!
Question: Do you think that I am in God’s Book of Life?
Clergy: No! Because you wrote a condemning website criticizing God, you cannot be in God’s Book of Life. You are a Satan, an adversary, an accuser / prosecutor of God. You are destined for Hell.
Question: If I’m not in God’s Book of Life, what difference does it make what I do or don’t do? Under these written rules of the Elect, I’m lost due to pre-destination, a stacked deck.
Clergy: No! You have to be saved.
Question: How can you have it both ways?
Clergy: Faith! All things are possible through faith in God. Don’t think, use logic or reason. Repent! Have faith! Obey! Worship! Be a slave to God and a bride of Jesus Christ!
Question: Aren’t you promoting a slave mentality?
Religion?
Clergy: You must be a willing slave to God. You are not with The Holy Spirit. You are going to Hell! I’ll pray for you.
Question: By praying for me, are you presuming to improve God’s business? Aren’t you assuming that God doesn’t know what He is doing? Do you presume to know what’s better for me than what God has pre-ordained for me to serve Him for His pleasure?
Clergy: All I know is that I’m going to Heaven and you are going to Hell.
Question: What would you have me do if my going to Hell pleases God?
Clergy: Repent! Join my church. Support, promote and finance God and my ministry. Pay tithes and Jesus will wash away your sins with His precious blood.
GWD: I will not support nor promote such an agenda. I’ll pass. I prefer to be a thinking and knowing human being rather than a faithful, believing slave or puppet. Does A Resurrection Qualify For Salvation?
If there was proof of God - there would be only one religion.
Luke 7:11-15 The widow of Nain’s son rose from the dead. Matthew 9:18-25 Jesus arose an official’s daughter from the dead.
The Widow Of Nain’s Son Rose From The Dead
Jesus said she was just sleeping. Shall we believe Jesus? If we do believe Jesus, Jesus did not raise the child from the dead.
I Kings 17:17-22 Elijah raised a dead child.
II Kings 4:32-35 Elisha raised the dead son of a Shunammite from the dead.
II Kings 13:21 The bones of Elisha were touched by a dead man who came back to life.
Luke 9:28-34 Moses and Elijah came back to life at the transfiguration.
I Samuel 28:7-15 King Saul got the Witch of Endor to raise Samuel’s spirit for him.
Matthew 27:50-53 Jesus died, the Earth quaked. Tombs opened. The dead saints raised and came forth after the resurrection. The Centurion and the men with him watched over Jesus. They were afraid. Catholic and KJV
Resurrection? Webster’s: A rising from the dead or coming back to life.
Ergo, an obvious Biblical error. By timetable, Jesus had not yet been resurrected. Jesus had not yet been buried. The words after the crucifixion would have been more accurate.
John 11:43-44 Lazarus arose from the dead.
Jesus Raised Lazarus From The Dead?
All of these people rose from the dead before Jesus rose from the dead. If one believes in this Biblically reoccurring phenomenon, just how significant is Jesus’ resurrection? Did Jesus resurrect in His flesh body or His transfigured body?
Acts 9:36-41 Peter raised Tabitha from the dead.
Acts 20:9-10 Paul raised Eutychus back to the living.
Were all who were raised from the dead also Gods, like Jesus? Coming back from the dead is no big deal with this Biblical bunch. Christians, obviously, are afraid of death to the extent they require eternal life. Christian faith and belief is obviously more connected to fantasy and feel-good than with historical and scientific integrity.
Ecclesiastes 3:19-21 For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts are the same, as one dies so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity. All go to one place, dust to dust. Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down to the Earth? Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
It can be comforting to perceive that a moment after one is dead, one remembers nothing.
Catholic Bible Notes state:
Genesis 5:22-24 Enoch never died. He went straight to Heaven.
Enoch
II Kings 2:11 Elijah never died. He went straight to Heaven.
Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live, they are deceased they shall not rise.
I Corinthians 15:13-19 Paul said: If there is noresurrection of the dead, then neither has Christ been raised, then empty too is our preaching; empty too, your faith. Then we are also false witnesses to God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise if, in fact, the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then neither has Christ been raised, and, if Christ has not been raised, your faith is vain. You are still in your sins… If, for this life only, we have hoped in Christ, we are the most pitiful people of all.
Alright Paul! Who has said it any better? However, could I Corinthians 15 project the only honest and accurate words Paul ever said?
I Corinthians 15:32 Paul said: If the dead are not raised: Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.
Well, maybe this one too.
Do some tend to feel and project that their needs are so much more important than yours? Do some Christians assume entitlements in the name of Jesus Christ by insisting that their needs should be satisfied even at the sacrifice and the expense of others?
John 20:1-8 Mary Magdalene ran to Peter and the other disciple whom Jesus loved and told them Jesus had been taken from the tomb. They both ran. The disciple (whom Jesus loved) ran faster than Peter and arrived at the tomb first. He bent down and saw the burial clothes but did not go in. Then, the disciple (whom Jesus loved) also went in, the one who arrived first at the tomb, and he saw and believed.
Peter And “The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved”
Tim 6:15-16 It is Jesus only who has immortality.
What? Only Jesus has immortality and there is noresurrection nor eternal-life for others? Then, what is all the urgency and sacrifice to get saved for?
Outside The New Testament, what history bearing nation has provided a history of Jesus? Josephus, a controversial Jewish writer, could be a source, but could that single source be an after-thought, post-scripted long after the time as many of the Gospels obviously were?
John 21:7-12 The disciple, whom Jesus loved, said to Peter: It is The Lord. They saw a charcoal fire with fish and bread on it. Jesus said to them: Bring some of the fish you caught. Let’s have breakfast.
One’s learning of a controversial subject can be predictable based on the mood or agenda one goes in with. If you feel depressed, defensive and are having difficulty- stop! Come back to it when you feel investigative, feisty, courageous, intelligent and clear-minded.
John 21:15-19 Three times Jesus asked: Simon / Peter, do you love Me more than these? He said: Yes Lord, You know that I love You. Jesus said: When you are old, somebody else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go. Jesus said this signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God. Follow Me.
Is the kind of death you don’t want the kind of death that tends to glorify God? Wasn’t, in fact, Simon / Peter who was crucified upside-down in Rome?
John 21:20-22 Peter turned and saw the disciple following whom Jesus loved, the one who had also reclined upon His chest during the supper… Peter asked Jesus: What about him? Jesus said: What if I want him to remain until I come? What concern is it of yours? You follow Me. Catholic
Jesus’ relationship with “the disciple whom Jesus loved” is suspect and controversial - for those who dare go there. Yes, I dare go there.
John
Some believe in spite of evidence, not because of it. The concept of believing in Jesus has many virtues, but don’t some clergy view legalists as adversaries, sinners?
How does one know if or when one has faith? Is “having faith” merely gambling on luck? Can’t luck also be defined as unmerited-gift? Does one assume or pretend faith? Is faith a feeling that one senses? Is it hypnosis? Can one be commanded to love someone, under penalty of consequence or persecution, bodyand soul? Can you love someone that you have never met, that you have
only heard or read about? Doesn’t one have to be insecure or prejudice to hate other human beings? Do you really believe in ghosts? Is it easy for you to passionately love someone who has been long dead? Do you really look forward to “the harvest” knowing that it means the expiration of every human-being alive on Earth? Do you have that little dedication or compassion for survival of humanity?
For some, this material serves as a hair-trigger for emotional insecurity. Others may find it to be a breath of fresh air. Religion seems to encourage people to invent a personal fantasy world in order to resolve reality-based problems. Dreams often become living nightmares. Is the looking forward to eternity a form of escapism? Is it just another way to avoid the pains of reality? Anesthesia does exist and nobody sane wants to face a surgical procedure without it.
II Corinthians 4:3-10 Our gospel is veiled for those perishing. God has blinded the minds of the unbelievers so they might not see the glory of Christ. While we are at home in the body, we are away from God. We try to please Him whether we are home or away. We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ so each one may receive recompense according to what he did in the body, whether good or evil. Catholic
What? Would God sabotage any human-being’s salvation? Why do Christians insist that one either supports God or Satan? Is there’s a third choice? Which one do you fear most?
II Corinthians 5:13 For if we are out of our minds, it is for God; for if we are rational, it is for you. Catholic
Dyslexia is when words get all mixed up in one’s head when one is reading. If one does not see this God as a villain of mankind throughout these documented deeds, one may be suffering from dyslexia or maybe just a lack of guts. If one should feel right at home with these Biblical contradictions, one may also be classified as a dangerous Schizophrenic.
Questions About Satan
Based on Biblical chapters and verse:
1. What does anyone really know about any Satan?
2. Where does Satan threaten to hurt anyone?
3. Do you have any Biblical evidence that Satan murdered anyone?
4. Does Satan have any commandments that he insists human-beings obey?
5. For what reasons would anyone fear Satan?
6. What is the worst thing that Satan can do to you or me?
7. Do you think Satan really exists?
Questions to believer’s sense of right and wrong:
If you create something, are you responsible for what it is?
Believer: Yes.
Do you believe in God?
Believer: Yes.
Do you believe that God created you?
Believer: Yes.
Do you believe that God will Judge you?
Believer: Yes.
Because God created you and God is responsible for the way you are, how can God judge you without judging Himself?
In 325 AD, the first Christian Roman Emperor, Constantine, ordered the Council of Nicea. Within a few years, the books of the Canon came about by vote. Jesus was also voted to be Divine. This is evidence that in religion and faith, truth is democratic. Facts have no regard for emotions nor politics. Political agendas and self-centered feelings often attempt to turn solid facts into bias and deceptive truths. Do you insist on being democratic when it comes to God?
Constantine Adopted The Cross & Christianity
So, is this the “End-Time” sequence?
1. I die. Yes.
2. Comes the 1,000 year “Millennium”. Yes.
3. Comes God’s “Judgment Day”. Yes.
4. Who judges me? God.
5. Who saves me? Jesus.
6. Isn’t Jesus God? Yes. God plays the Jesus role.
7. What is Satan’s role? God plays the Satan role.
“Life is like a roller-coaster, not that it has ups and downs, twists and turns, or topsy-turvy, but that the ride is more important than getting there.” Gary DeVaney
C. Dennis McKinsey’s 2 excellent books are: The Encyclopedia of Biblical Errancy 1995 and Biblical Errancy (A Reference Guide) 2000 - both by Prometheus Books.
Some argue: The Old Testament doesn’t matter. The New Testament replaced The Old Testament. Some claim, the NT is all that counts.
The Biblical Versions Of Easter
If all these conflicting versions of “The Resurrection” were given during under-oath testimony in court, how many of these written testimonies would be guilty of perjury? How much of this perjury was God inspired? If perjury was proved, how would the practice of swearing-in on the Bible be affected?
Perjury?
I highly recommend the above site and all its videos for clear explanations of Christianity and the histories of religions.
Gary DeVaney
Who do you know hasn’t yet seen “The God Murders” website or “The Shocking God” videos?
Any corrections, feedback or comments?
Thank You!
Acharya S defines Easter:
What talk-show host or politician do you know should be sent to this site?
Gary DeVaney’s YouTube videos:
God’s Evil Deed’s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUdkFXxthe4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g17YO9lSuqA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DmjuxqC1MI
http://www.truthbeknown.com/easter.htm
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ7aPwHXWr8&feature=related